User talk:Zephyr135
Older stuff here, 2013, 2014, 2015 Stat BR vs Unit BR Hi Zephyr ! It's been a long time since I last came to the wiki, but I still play the game at least on a monthly basis. I have a few questions about stat growth : while trying to figure out how to keep one of my units from changing its STR significance, I looked into Stat growth, and I was confused when I read "The unit's starting BR determines the starting BR of their stats". Does every stat really have a separate BR ? If yes, is the stat up triggered by an increase of that stat BR ? And what's the use of Unit BR apart from setting the starting stat BR ? For years, I thought it was the unit BR that governed stat ups, without ever thinking twice about it... That would explain why we rarely see multiple stat ups for a unit on your average battle, huh ... Does this also mean that a given stat can reach its soft cap while another stat is still at the starting BR value ? If yes, I've been doing it wrong for 7 years :o Another thing I want to verify : soft-capping a stat at army BR X or army BR X+20 doesn't change anything to the stat value, does it ? So basically, the main benefit of keeping a low army BR is that end-game units (like The Seven) will soft cap a bit faster (plus keeping enemies from using better arts I guess) ? One last thing : about the "fixed increase to a certain stat triggered randomly", what parameters dictate the trigger rate ? chain count ? BR difference ? KO'd units ? does the "only once per battle" apply to each unit separately ? Frankly, it feels like I've discovered a whole new game... --Aymen623 (talk) 12:59, February 24, 2016 (UTC) : Yep, every stat has its own level. You can push a stat hard enough that it will hit its soft cap well before all the other stats will. The other thing of note is that your units in reserves will grow based on what the active party is doing. Focus purely on physical growth, and your reserve units will reflect that as well. In one of my current runs, their STR growth is far exceeding their INT growth, to the point that even Pagus has STR>INT. : Stat ups are triggered by 2 things: having a high enough base when the level up occurs, and a random fixed gain. If you look at any unit's SPD, they can increase in level for a bit before you see any actual integer increase. : The soft cap does not care for army BR. It's purely concerned with that unit's base stats + growth rates. That's it. Main benefit for keeping a low BR is to take advantage of the EXP multipliers. It's more than just stats. There's also arts, skills, and strengthening equipment. : I'm not entirely sure, but types of actions taken, Links, Chains, and BR difference are the biggest contributing factors. And yes, the random stat up is per stat, per unit. If you get lucky enough, multiple units will get an increase in multiple stats. : Honestly, it's really nothing to worry about. It's extra information on how units develop that can be used to further optimize how to train them. Zephyr (talk) 08:06, February 25, 2016 (UTC) :: Thanks for the answers. It's been years since I've done a "casual" run, so I feel like I should know these sorts of things. Every run I do now is themed (Yama only and stuff) or has an extreme purpose (True Conqueror OTK :( still not happening), and I spend so much time planning classes and weapon upgrading & strengthening, that I basically take the high final stats for granted. :: Just a few questions for my next run if you don't mind : ::*Warrior Jorgen won't request the Parrying Tataraichis I craft for him, despite being Combat focused. Does he need to go through both focus changes (BR66) ? if he ever does, can I expect the damage output to be roughly the same as Emmy ? Is Squall the best art for dealing damage to a single unit while dual wielding katanas ? ::*Snievan would rather clone a black belt than request the belt named after him, how do I get him to request Snievan's Belt ?? (him or any other Sovani really, nobody wants that belt) ::*I don't know how to handle Emmy's technique modifiers : should I get her to max out her dual wielding arts towards power BEFORE she gets the Nightbloom Virtutis ? (my last couple of runs have been new game+, so I always have the crafting components to fully upgrade the weapons before they are requested) ::*I always run short of Ordainers (lol), Ninjas, and Gladiators, so I settle for Mysticknights. Is there a class more suited for Physical damage ? ::*Have you ever succeeded in casting Weapon Arts in the first turn against the Conqueror ? (curse you Fatal Eclipse *shakes fist*) ? Is this a sign that I should be using Irina's Omnistrike (lol) and Hundred flowers ? (I can't Imagine Castanea and Roeas setting a union's health to red after all the grinding I do, so that would mostly need to be Fatal Eclipse's doing). ::Thanks for the help! --Aymen623 (talk) 09:49, February 25, 2016 (UTC) ::: The Rank 8 OTK is possible, but requires a rather extreme setup, including factoring in levelling equipment. The player that accomplished this focused on stats first, then on the equipment, eventually leveling to +9. ::: If it's a unique leader, they have to be set to combat focused, which can only be done through the question. Emmy's damage should still be better than Jorgen's if he's equipped like that. ::: For requests, it's best to have just that unit active and have the target item in inventory. If there are multiple items they can request, you can stick a couple of them on Rush. If you have more than that, then you might be out of luck. ::: If you give her the Nightbloom, she'll always mod for Speed no matter the focus. If you want to keep the Power modifier, then she's going to have to give up that Nightbloom. Or you can only use her for a battle before she starts undoing everything. ::: Rank 3 classes. I'd take an Axemaster Torgal over a Cleric or Deathknight Torgal. And they boost WA damage, since classes that have WS damage bonuses don't help WAs. ::: Yep. Need to build up that union morale against Roeas and Castanea. As long as union morale is above half, there's a chance that they'll consider a WA. ::: Zephyr (talk) 08:47, February 26, 2016 (UTC) :::Thanks. So as I suspected, the first combat focus isn't enough to make Jorgen request the Parrying Tataraichis ? --Aymen623 (talk) 09:35, February 26, 2016 (UTC) :::: No... when you first answer the question, it immediately sets the focus. It's possible that something has happened in the meantime, but there's practically nothing that you could do that would set his focus back to Balance. Unless you let him have Invo and have been spamming them. Which is unlikely, because why would anyone do that (other than maybe me because for the lulz). Possibly that you may have been unlucky with the requests. It's not guaranteed. Zephyr (talk) 23:26, February 26, 2016 (UTC) ::::Well, that would be a bummer. Anyways, I'm starting my run in a few hours. Hopefully, this time I'll make it. I'll keep you posted. Thanks Zephyr ! --Aymen623 (talk) 00:25, February 27, 2016 (UTC) :::::Hello again, Zephyr. I couldn't help but notice you saying that you grind Observers and Brynhildrs in the Ancient Ruins. I spent the last 10 days grinding Oblivion Wings to gain STR on my units & levels on my gear, now that the classes, equips and arts are locked up. Am I doing it wrong (please be honest) ? I can't finish fights with Observers fast enough (I'm not dealing enough damage - yet) on Mystic Seal to avoid dying from a million turns of Overdrive. My lineup is all dual wielding leaders + Rush + Torgal + Wyngale + Ghor + someone else I don't remember, all combat focused, with either "Might", "Parrying", "Shielding", "Dominus", or "Virtutis" something +4, all on rank 3 combat classes, or Ninja, or Gladiator. So, I absolutely can't survive a mystic art :( and it makes me sad. Any piece of advice is welcome --Aymen623 (talk) 15:56, March 15, 2016 (UTC) Fit for Hard Mode? Hey Zephyr, first off let me tell you that this Wiki has made my TLR experience extremely awesome. Especially your contributions. I've been playing TLR from time to time for years now, this time with the help of this Wiki, and can't believe how much I had missed previously. I'm using the .exe with your Mystic Focus Bug Fix, thanks for that in advance! Anyway, to the topic; in this first playthrough my BR is 87 I got almost all magazines, formations and all five customization levels. The only bosses left are The Lost, The Enlightened Seven and Demigod. To be honest I feel a bit too lazy to grind on when I know there is the Hard Mode. It makes Normal feel like not worth grinding for. Concerning this I have a few questions and hope that I don't bother you too much :D How many arts should my Rush be focusing on? Like 3-4? (For example Hexes, Psionics, Wards, Remedies, you know, the good stuff that you usually only get later in the game). And will a Djinslayer be good enough for a Hard run? Should Hard Mode ONLY be run with low BR in mind, or doesn't it matter much? (I remember you writing somewhere that one shouldn't worry as much, but after all, Hard Mode is... Hard). Also I'm worrying about my leveling, because at BR 87 with a 4/4/4/3/3 setup, none of my unions had even 50 INIT AP, but a good MAX of 600-800 or something.. was I doing something wrong, or is it just equipment? I saw you explaining HP gains by getting damaged and healed a lot.. is the Unit still "allowed" to die, or do I have to keep it alive for the entire encounter in order to increase HP? I know that it has to be alive when the fight ends in order to receive Stat gains. Oh! And I wanted to start my Hard Mode playthrough with manual member equip.. the correct way with changing Upgrade Lists. I like completing At Hatred's End and don't like Roberto too much... so I was thinking about giving the Frostblade to Glenys, but she doesn't seem to want it. Is it because it's a Remnant? I gave her a Bastardsword, fought a few battles with her executing arts, but she just doesn't ask for the Frostblade :( (Not like I understand any of that :D) Irina doesn't want the Malystrix either, although I gave her a crappy spear. Hope this doesn't bore any of you too much, looking forward to any reply! --L2LastRemant (talk) 18:06, March 4, 2016 (UTC) : I'd still attempt to get through the some of the DLC bosses to at least get the guild task rewards. The Lost nets you the Trident formation and the E7 gets you some decent equipment from the fight + Reya's Notes. The Hourglass formation from taking out the Demigod is OK, mostly for IA unions. Not killing the Demigod means you can't fight the White Conqueror, which is fine since the guild task gives 500,000g. : Djinslayer is viable... Not the type of weapon I'd consider since it's a dead-end, nor does it have effects I would want during Hard Mode (which is mostly either damage boosters, resists, or increased Crit rates). You can make most high ranked equipment work in some capacity. It's more of a caster's weapon due to the high MYS... but I'd go with DW-ing Runic Scythes if I want the damage. : What I make Rush focus on would depend on who I'm going to hire, focus of the playthrough, and what I think my projected BRs are at different points in the story. Then there's also the skills that require a bit of work to progress, like Rem (Refresh/Rejuvenate) and Lotions (Antivenin). As soon as I get the chance, I try to get Refresh/Rejuvenate II and enough Antivenin usage to Eye Cream because I know how difficult and annoying it is to get them anywhere. In general, the High Mystics and Lotions get the bulk of my attention at the beginning of the game. The other skills are trained on an as-needed basis. : Depending on the units you have, it can vary quite a bit. Balance growth types have the worst InitAP and AP growth. If you happen to have a lot of those types of units, then lower InitAP is expected. I'm generally not concerned with InitAP if I have units charging AP through damage. And yes, equipment can play a role. There are a few things that like boosting MaxAP a bit more than InitAP, and then there are things like an upgraded Nightbloom or Wonder Bangle that increases a unit's MaxAP by 50%/25%. AP growth is also a bit slow if you're not getting a bunch of commands with AP costs for each unit. : Yep, they're still allowed to die. You don't even need them to be damaged. Just being targeted is enough to count. So someone throwing a Retreat Flare at the union would count as being "hit". : Remnant requests are defined by unit. Glenys, and every other L-Sword unit except for Roberto and Young, would never bother with it. If you really want to swap it over to her, then you'd need 2 copies. One at base, the other as an upgrade. Fairly sure that should be enough to get her to request it since the game doesn't seem to have checks against very specific (and random) cases. It's just a straight "upgrade". : Zephyr (talk) 06:34, March 5, 2016 (UTC) Thank you a lot for your thorough reply! I also figured that a Djinslayer is somewhat poor... I'm not good with figuring out which formations are best, and I am quite happy with Candle, so I started the Hard Mode without defeating those bosses. I made sure I have enough components and crafted an Enchanted Bluesteel, a Shielding Soulshield, a Ragna-rock and Ludope's Visor (although I would swap the Visor for an EVA accessory now I think). As for Lotions, I am simply too scared to ever use Item Arts on my Rush again, ever since he changed from a Legendary Samurai to an effing Scout :D. I'm going for Warlock this time, for the AP charge and Safety skill. Kiss of Life is an AP killer so I use Blocter and David for IA's, especially since David is stuck with Mysticknight forever (at least for me). Concerning my equiment, will I learn Cerulean Rain and Soulshield once I have enough AP, or do I need some CA's for Cerulean Rain? With "the other as an upgrade", do you mean an illegal upgrade to a Frostblade Artis? I'd kinda feel cheesy doing it, but I also feel that great unit such as Glenys is wasted with a Tataraichi (and in my playthrough she had her Ninja Katana+2 forever, so yeah. And while you're answering questions, maybe you could answer me this.. I'm trying to make Caedmon use the Orobas, is there a way? I gave him some crappy Phelenx but he doesn't request anything. It's strange, I'm rather empathetic in real life.--L2LastRemant (talk) 09:37, March 6, 2016 (UTC) : The Ragna-rock is good for its Growth Boost properties and if you need something against Enthrall (which isn't absolutely necessary either). I'd swap the Ragna-rock with the EVA+ accessory when training is done. Ludope's Visor is a nice bonus to all mystics, including arcana, so I'd keep it on. : Considering that Herbs are relatively easy to raise and how often you need to be using them, Scout is a pretty natural progression for most Herbs units. And if you're going for Warlock, Scout is just an intermediate class. David can be shifted out of Mysticknight and into Scout pretty easily if you forgo any Invo usage. Guardian requires a bit more work. Assassin is pretty easy from Scout. Alchemist is expensive, but also fairly easy. Lotions are somewhat difficult to train, so I wouldn't worry too much about "accidentally" getting Guardian or Hunter. : Cerulean Rain requires Lv15 in OH and Sword, so you would need to use CAs to meet the requirements. : I guess? Glenys equipped with the Frostblade should request the Frostblade Artis/Virtutis since it's considered an "upgrade" of sorts that also follows the equip request rules. Glenys with the Tataraichi isn't too bad if you get her to Guardian for another set of resists, but the class also blocks WS changes during battle, so it's a bit of a trade-off. : From what I can see, the Orobas is considered a mystic focused weapon, so Caedmon would need to be mystic focused in order to see it. Or equipped with the Orobas to request the Orobas Dominus. There are other weapons that are like that. : Zephyr (talk) 03:29, March 6, 2016 (UTC) Thank you. If I understand correctly, level 15 in OH means something like Knee Splitter V, Cutting Lunge V and Bue Streak V, right, so the sum is 15 or more? And is it the same for Mystic Arts? But I don't understand what determines the level in weapons. How do I see if I have level 15+ in swords, or any weapon for that matter? I crafted Hinnah's Earring and a Resurrection Chain to counter some nasty bosses, although I am still kind of disappointed in Rush's EVA capabilities. I saw in some videos how he dodges every single melee and mystic attack. Would that require these two accessories together with the Shield of the Vanquisher? I had decided for the Soulshield purely out of my sense for aesthetics, as the SotV is so huge and clumsy. Yeah I forgot that I can get out of Scout easily if I put in enough effort to reach a higher level class. And concerning Glenys, I first thought that once I own two copies of the Frostblade, Glenys will request one of them if equipped with any Large Sword. But now I see what you mean, and it seems obvious. Stupid me.--L2LastRemant (talk) 09:37, March 6, 2016 (UTC) : Not quite. If you look at the Developing Arts page, it'll tell you some of the stuff related to that. In short, you can somewhat tell the levels based on what arts you've recently learned. So learning Knee Splitter means that you're at least Lv2 in OH, Cutting Lunge - Lv5, and Blue Streak - Lv9. Lv15 doesn't have an indicator, and I don't think anyone really cares since it's rather inconsequential. What we're more concerned with is the Weapon Type level, which only has 2 indicators, at Lv8 and Lv16. So if you can get Rush to learn Requiem, then you've hit Lv20+ in OH and Lv16 in Sword. : Mystics work much the same way, only that you need to also meet the next rank's requirements. So a Rem unit wouldn't be able to learn Revitalize (Rank A) if they haven't gotten Refresh or Rejuvenate (Rank B) to Lv2. Or an Invo unit can't learn Wildfire or Grenade Impact (Rank S) if they haven't gotten Permafrost or Caustic Blast (Rank A) to Lv2. So if you completely miss the requirements, then you can level up something like Hex all the way to 14 (Cachexia)... but not actually see anything to indicate that. So we still use the arts, much like with CAs and IAs, to get a rough idea. The other ways are to poke at your save file with a hex editor or a memory reader. : Yep. The Shield of the Vanquisher has an additional Phys + Mys Evasion +4. The players might have also had the shield leveled a little bit for a little extra evasion, although we go with 2 Hinnah's Earrings since mystic damage isn't that bad and is easy to recover from. Even with using just the shield at +3 was already incredibly useful; Marty only had a Damascene Earring on, which doesn't increase EVA. Going with the Superlative Soulshield can give a similar, if less effective, effect as using the Shield of the Vanquisher. : Eh, you get used to playing around and finding silly things that can potentially stop your plans, until you realize that there are workarounds that also adhere to the game's rules in some weird way. : Zephyr (talk) 17:14, March 6, 2016 (UTC) Hi once more Zephyr! So, in this very hard Playthrough I'm about to face The Fallen, so it's time for Bai Ze. Does one's BR actually matter when grinding stats? In the PC Ultimate Grind, the guy in the video said something about it only working with very low BR. I didn't make that a priority, my BR is currently 49, my Rush has 770 HP, 88 INT, Wards and Psionics maxed (he is a Legendary Commander atm, still need Crimson Flare to get Warlock), and all other MA's up to the 3rd-to-last skill. Would you call that a "proper" development for that BR / story progression? Especially his HP seems so damn low to me... I sometimes purposedly drag out fights to get him healed alot, yet the majority of the party are above the 1k mark, while Rush only beats Pagus's poor 680 HP. As for End Game Grinding (for the DLC bosses); Bai Ze, chaining a lot in, for example, Fornstrand, or running through The Ancient Ruins? Again, my main concern are stats, as Skills seem to overflow in Hard Mode. I would say it's the Ragna-rock, but all others seem to develop their arts faster aswell. Out of curiosity, is a Solo Rush run actually "harder", or just more of a grind? After all, you don't worry much about tactics, you are essentially immune to damage with proper equipment and some Wards for that 1% chance to get hit, it seems all that is hard about it is the time you have to invest. It is still tempting to try it out in the next playthrough though, as I generally enjoy RPG's with one character to focus on more. Planning to finally get started with my Morrowind (with MGSO installed) once I get sick of TLR. By the way, have you seen Rabar111's Solo videos? Especially his No-shield fights are amazing!--L2LastRemant (talk) 20:07, March 12, 2016 (UTC) Update: I chained 750 Oarfish in Crookfen, and the results are amazing; everyone has had a rough 50% increase in their STR/INT respectively, gained around 30% more HP, 10-15% more AP and some SPD. Rush, Zolean and Yuniver learned Cachexia (Loki is painfully slow with his MA's in my opinion, he barely keeps up). CA's improve faster when fighting Bai Ze, but the stat gain more than makes up for it. Using 3/3/4/4/4 setup, 3/3 are mystic, 4/4/4 are combat, the mystic unions have around 4000 HP, the combat ones have around 6700-7200. Rush went from 92 INT to 131 INT and from 820 HP to 1191 HP. I'm really impressed and happy. It takes longer than the Ultimate Grind obviously, because of respawn and running around for chaining (doing 18-22 chains always), but this way I can level Glenys too, and she's up to Moonset III and Kiss of Life. Guess I will never waste my time with Bai Ze again unless I need money. Did some more chains before leaving Crookfen, up to around 1100. The combat unions are all above 8000 health, mystic unions at around 4500. STR/INT increased by another 30-40. Feels good.--L2LastRemnant 10:27, March 14, 2016 (UTC) By he way, does repeated Bai Ze selling count towards unlocking all Trade Goods? Or am I required to sell specific monster groups for certain items?--L2LastRemnant 11:27, March 13, 2016 (UTC) : BR does matter for stats. It helps with prolonging how long you can sustain EXP multipliers for more than just the 18 you've chosen. Play it smart, and you can have a number of backups for fun deloyments. The thing about the "Ultimate Grind" is that it's not particularly BR efficient. The Landworms are also so weak that you can't get much of an EXP reduction, other than taking fewer turns against them. I think their max level is something like 24 or so. It's not particularly high. : My preferred endgame grinding is going into the Ancient Ruins against the Observers and Brynhildr. For the earlygame, it's mostly against the Spiritwoods and Godwoods in Numor Mine. They're good up to around BR15 for both a x3 stat EXP multiplier and x1.5 art/skill EXP multiplier. It takes a little while to manipulate them, so it's slow, methodical, and you can get some nice results out of it. I trained 3 soldiers to Guardian. Even one of them, Canna, has Victory Sweep. Only BR4. And I'd try to finish stat grinding by around BR40~50 or so, unless I have much later recruits to grab later on. : I'd say that Solo Rush isn't much of a grindfest until you hit around Namul Niram. That's where you'll face off against your first enemy with an attack that's guaranteed to hit. Castanea is pretty nasty as well, but even he can be taken down with a base level Rush as long as he never uses Hammerspin. And yes, I've seen those vids. Solo fights are fun and all, but I prefer something sillier. Still, it's a great showcase of some of the possibilities of the game. Although I still have to hand it to onoteppe, a player I've been keeping an eye on over the past year for their Rank 8 Conqueror 1-Turn KO. That series of vids really shows how to take advantage of EVERYTHING. : Bai Ze only counts towards whatever Dragons count for. So you'd still have to hunt down other monster families to get the full range of trade goods to show up. : Zephyr (talk) 07:18, March 15, 2016 (UTC) Your reply is appreciated as always. Well, holy shit. That onoteppei guy really digged that game. One can tell that she/he perfectly knows the order in which her or his unions will attack, a thing I have problems with. If I could just make sure my Cachexia-centered union will hit from the sides, it would make life much easier. Is it about formations? As mentioned, I'm bad at them. Or is it about how many units are in each union? Because I noticed there were only one or two units in the unions that attacked first. I see, BR is a bit of a bitch. My main concern are Wyngale and Leucetius, as The Fallen requires some grind, especially on Hard Mode, and Leucetius requires BR 80. As both are the only ones except Rush being able to become Warlocks, I like to have them in my party. Not to speak of the Seven... But well, there are the Ancient Ruins. Sorry if this is mentioned somewhere, but what does mobility do for a union? Wider range to target enemies? Speed? And are there "best" formations? From what Beau said in his 100% completion run, I take it that Trident is the best for CA unions. Is there such an awesome formation for MA's too? I'm using Candle for Rush's and David's unions, but of course there might be a formation that I don't have yet. In my last playthrough I hadn't done around 10-15 guild tasks each. What do you mean by sillier things? :D Stuff like IA's only? I imagine MA's only must be a tough one as well, especially for the Fallen/Lost. Why had you used three soldiers? Xbox 360? Or for some more difficulty? By the way (I'm writing that too often), is there some way I can still contribute somehow? Chances are high that I will do a 3rd, 4th, 5th playthrough, so if you need an extra eye on something specific, let me know and I will try my best. Feeling cheap getting help and not helping. --L2LastRemnant 10:32, March 15, 2016 (UTC)